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50-50 Stringing Squabble (Read 383 times)
ggtennis
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50-50 Stringing Squabble
May 9th, 2008, 6:38pm
 
A colleague and I are squabbling about the 50-50 method of stringing.  We would like to collect the input of the professionals on this board to either support or douse our arguments.  In a nutshell, here are the positions (in random order):

Position A.  One of us believes (when stringing with the 50/50 pattern) it is most prudent to string the crosses middle-up and complete the top half of the racquet first.  Once the top half is complete, you then pick up at mid point and string middle down to finish the job.

Postion B.  The other believes the above mentioned approach is unbalanced and has potential to damage the frame.  Therefore while it is more time consuming, it is imperative that the 50/50 approach to the crosses mirror the mains, only going two ahead and then going to the opposite side to maintain balance.

Both of us have found some support for our positions, but nothing so far has been convincing.  So...what do the members of this board think?  What is your experience?  Let the discussion commence!
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #1 - May 10th, 2008, 12:06am
 
in position A... if you did the top half first then the bottom half wouldn't you have the same amount of force on the racket when you're done with the top half (just applied middle to top as opposed to top to middle) as if you were going straight top to bottom?  When you're done with the top half if you do the bottom half from middle down it seems (at least in my mind) that it's basically just doing the entire frame from top to bottom except that the top half is middle to top.

I thought that 50/50 was really ONLY position B.

In any case i hate doing 50/50, but i do position b.  

Cheers
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #2 - May 10th, 2008, 1:18pm
 
Position B.  I charge extra for 50/50.

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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #3 - May 10th, 2008, 2:22pm
 
There hasn't been a lot of discussion of 50/50 in some time.  I never liked it because of the enormous lenghts of string along the sides of the frame:  I seem to recall it being advised to increase tension 4-5# on the first few crosses each way to make up for it, something I don't like.
Prince would allow 50/50 ONLY if the top half was done first, I think.  Can't recall what other companies think of the process.
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #4 - May 10th, 2008, 8:57pm
 
Thanks to all for your input so far!  Allow me to add a bit more context to the discussion.

For the past few months I have been stringing Prince O ports and Speedports using a 50/50 pattern.  Of course this is done with 2 pieces so there are no ugly long runs on the outside of the frame.  (Nor could there be with the O port design.)  The major advantage of using the 50/50 technique on these racquets is that you do not have to use any tools, nor the machine break in order to handle the crosses.  I believe it is better for the machine (not putting all that torque on the break and tension head) and I also believe there is potential for it to lead to a more consistent stringbed as it eliminates the variable of the break slipping or tool not seating properly etcetera.

The question we are now wrestling with is one of efficiency.  Is it safe for the frame to be strung from the middle to the top and then pick up and finish the crosses middle down?  It is clearly much more efficient, but does this approach put any unwanted stresses on the hoop of the frame?  

I have been experimenting on my personal 03 Red (insert evil scientist cackle here!) and have not experienced any issues thus far, even well above the manufacturers recommended tension range.  I am still fiddling with the messiness of the two piece pattern in the top of the frame, but that is another topic for another day.  

So, please share your thoughts on an acceptable approach for using the 50/50 technique on the Prince O/Speedport frames.  I will give Prince a call later in the week and see what the designated geniuses in the corporate headquarters advise.
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #5 - May 10th, 2008, 9:56pm
 
Well, since I am the old fart who was around back in the day when 50/50 was the preferred method of the Babolat Tour team, I will give you my opinion.

Position A was the published and "correct" method.  Start in the middle, finish up, then back to the middle and down. 50/50 fell out of vogue because as frames got to be an ENORMOUS 85 square inches, the longer runs on the one piece was thought to be more detrimental than beneficial. Today the frames are so much more highly engineered than then, I am not sure if correct is still correct!  But back in the day, "A" was the correct method.

Interesting theory on the O3 sticks and I like your thinking. It certainly seems that a more consistent result would be achieved. Even if your brake is good the angle of the string from frame to tension head runs a gamut of angles from string to string, so how consistent could it be?

Maybe we can get some input from the Prince Design/Engineer team.  I will send out some emails.

Very interesting!   Roll Eyes  As old as I am I still continue to learn.  That is why I love what I do! Wink
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #6 - May 12th, 2008, 1:29am
 
Just happened to be reading this and even though I have never done one of these jobs, and so to speak, I am a noob at stringing (about 1 year), I wonder and I am just thinking out loud.  The reason, I believe, that you start the mains in the center, is for the even tensioning from center out on both sides, is that correct. Rather than having tension go from, say, right to left or vice versa.
   Why then would the reasoning change?  It seems the reason for the center out to both ends on the crosses is also to distribute the tension, center out.  If you do two or three per side and proceed to the edges on mains, why would you not do the same on crosses.
   ReBob has answered already and I am new, but if you would, this just seems like a classic case of do the same for both, unless I have missed the reasoning for center out.
          Thanks,...
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #7 - May 12th, 2008, 3:39am
 
When I've strung 50/50 I've done it according to Position A. I'm not sure if this was reinforced by something published or just bad eyesight. I've yanked out an old copy of the Stringer's Assistant (88-89) and they have a diagram where the order of tensioning is enumerated. In a font size that's probably somewhere in the negative numbers they call for two strings to be tensioned first in the lower half, then four in the upper half, four in the lower half, four in the upper half, blah, blah, blah. They recommend (actually they quote Babolat as recommending) adding 5 lbs to the four center crosses, although I doubt this is necessary when stringing 2 pc.

Somewhere around the year 2000 instructions for the 50/50 pattern were unceremoniously dropped from the Digest. It wasn't until they received a question from a new stringer in March 2005 about 50/50 stringing that they offered up an explanation. Apparently, they determined that 50/50 stringing is far more stressful for the racquet than previously thought. Why they chose to remain silent about it is anybodies guess. The article is available on their website. For copyright reasons I will only include this brief snippet: "This relatively sudden change in the width of the hoop will transfer the stress and compression of the hoop into the "shoulders," causing them to square off."
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #8 - May 12th, 2008, 9:45am
 
I am gonna try ggtennis' 50-50 on my O3s today.  I am now at a Prince exclusive club and all I do are O3s. They make me want to die! Maybe stringing them 50-50 will make my life easier.  

And if anyone wants to drop off some Wilsons, it will make my day.
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #9 - May 14th, 2008, 3:28pm
 
Has anyone attempted to contact Prince for their take on this? If not, I will.

Back in Aug 05 I emailed Prince for their take on a modified 50/50 pattern that I was using that called for taking the last top bound mains, running them into the crosses from top to bottom and finishing with the missing outer mains. Here is the response I got:

"We allow the 50/50 pattern, meaning starting the crosses at the 3/9 o'clock area and progressing up and down respectively.  We do not allow cross strings to be strung bottom up, and that is the bottom line.  It is okay to start the crosses before finishing the mains, as long as the majority of cross strings are strung top to bottom.  The only exception to this is the 50/50 pattern.
I hope this helps."

This response does not answer the initial question of "A" or "B", a question I'd like to see answered by Prince.
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #10 - May 18th, 2008, 2:10pm
 
Lindsay wrote on May 12th, 2008, 9:45am:
I am gonna try ggtennis' 50-50 on my O3s today.  I am now at a Prince exclusive club and all I do are O3s. They make me want to die! Maybe stringing them 50-50 will make my life easier.  

And if anyone wants to drop off some Wilsons, it will make my day.



Alright, so I strung up my O3 Speedport Whites today 50-50 on the crosses, and it was great.  I didn't have my strings pulling at a weird angle, and I think I got a more even stringbed tension.  This method would also be beneficial with gut, because the gut would only go through half the frame before its tied off.  I used "Method B" because I had plenty of time and wanted to see how difficult/confusing it was to keep switching my starting clamp...not that hard.  This is my new method for stringing O3s.  Look out world.
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #11 - May 18th, 2008, 5:34pm
 
Quote:
Has anyone attempted to contact Prince for their take on this? If not, I will.


My email to Prince regarding "A" or "B" has been forwarded to the R&D dept. Will post their reply asap.
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #12 - May 19th, 2008, 6:55am
 
Hi Lindsay - I occasionally use the 50/50 method if the gut is looking a bit dodgy and likely to unravel during the crosses. The 50/50 stringing makes so much sense that I wonder why I do not use it more often. I especially like that the gut in the middle of the stringbed is as fresh as possible.
One drawback of mine is the use of a starting clamp. Over the years I have found that natural gut and starting clamps are not good friends.
There is always a chance of either skinning the gut if too slack or crushing it to death if too tight. This is ok if back at my shop but out at tournaments where I meet gut more often, it is a different story.
Another concern is pulling the first centre cross. It FEELS as if it will break the frame in two! That does not happen of course, but I am toying with maybe using a kind of adjustable "bridge" that could be placed inside the hoop and resist any unwanted inward forces on the frame during tensioning.
Good post everyone, nice to see some technical thinking going on and good luck with the O3's and Speedports! I will be doing lots of them at the DFS pre-Wimbledon tournament soon, including Sharapova, Jankovic etc. Anyone travelling over to the UK can always contact me at a tournament if they want a free coffe and chat about stringing, Liam
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #13 - May 19th, 2008, 9:24am
 
Hi Liam,
I'm quite surprised at you not thinking that gut doesn't go with a starting clamp. In 13 years of tour stringng I have had 1 set of gut break because of the clamp. The gut was some old Jay checked gut which was dry and the clamp was too rough and the combination popped the set of Bjorkmans 125 gut. Otherwise not a problem and in the shop I get through about 150 sets of gut a year and have never had a set break on me (my red handle Babolat clamps are 18 years old and still "massage" the string).
50/50 was used by Babolat in the 80's and 90's as a way of getting the freshest gut into the hitting area and now that the hitting area has moved north is less useful on the tour.
I know that Bob worked with the Babolat team at that time so maybe can add some more info.
All the best,
Richard  Cool
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Re: 50-50 Stringing Squabble
Reply #14 - May 19th, 2008, 11:18am
 
Richard_Parnell wrote on May 19th, 2008, 9:24am:
50/50 was used by Babolat in the 80's and 90's as a way of getting the freshest gut into the hitting area and now that the hitting area has moved north is less useful on the tour.


If the hitting area has moved north it seems to me the ATW should also be falling out of favor on the tour since it is apt to leave the crosses in the hitting area looser than say stringing bottom to top.
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