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constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight (Read 202 times)
martin
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constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Nov 4th, 2010, 12:18pm
 
is anybody aware of tests being done on the differences of stress being put on strings by different machine techniques of putting tension
on the string?

my hypothesis is that a constant pull will put a lot more stress on the string then a crank, can anybody verify this?
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rjyu
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #1 - Nov 4th, 2010, 4:01pm
 
That's an interesting hypothesis.  Why would you think that?
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2010, 6:34pm
 
the whole idea of "tension" is the stress on the string.

I believe that a drop-weight gets a better resulting tension maintenance than a crank by allowing more of the weaker bonds to break under continued stress. You can see this on a constant pull system.

The crank on the other hand locks out immediately at the desired tension and many bonds are still breaking after the lock so there is considerably more initial tension loss.

I haven't personally tested this, but it seems logical-
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2010, 11:07pm
 
Hmmmm....I would say this is an exercise in overthinking the process...something that many of we stringers tend to do.  I don't know the answer, but the stringing cabins of the pro tournaments use electronic CP machines.  With that in mind, I don't think that there is any damage being done to the string, otherwise, none of the companies would be making CP machines.

David
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #4 - Nov 4th, 2010, 11:47pm
 
From a theoretical point of view I do not see a significant difference between the systems if ! the same SBS is to be achieved.
Drop wheight and electronic constant pull will pull tension and both will compensate for the first seconds tension loss (stretch) in the string by keeping tension up. DW will compensate almos liear analog and electroic in little steps dwith step size depoending on complexity of the particular machine.
The crank will have to pull higher initial tension to get the same SBS as it will not compensate for initial tension loss unless you crank extremely slowly. How much higher is debatable many estimate with 10%. The string only sees tension applied within a certain time. As the crank would have to apply higher tension quickly I see almost more probability that it is harsher on the string compared to the constant pull systems.
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #5 - Nov 5th, 2010, 7:36am
 
Martin:  What is your point?  I understand that if one pulls harder and longer there's more stress on any string, so what's your point?

I don't think you need any testing to prove this out.

Albert
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #6 - Nov 5th, 2010, 9:11am
 
I'll chime in my thoughts too.  I'm working under the assumption that you ultimately want the same string bed feel from the constant pull machine and the lock out machine.  If that's the case, we can pretty much forget about reference tension.  I'm also talking about electric constant pull machines and not drop weights since I haven't used a drop weight in about 25 years, so my area of knowledge doesn't cover them.

I tend to think that the constant pull machine will not be more stressful to the string.  In fact, I think in a lot of cases it will be less stressful.  My reasoning for this is that a lot of people on lock out machines really pull the lever on the crank machines very very quickly for speed's sake.  I think this "fast pull" can put more strain on a string than  the more smooth pull of a constant pull machine. Also, many constant pull machines have diablo barrels which can help lessen pressure to the strings in the tension head string grippers.  I'm not aware of many lockout machines that utilize a diablo barrel.

As for the effect of the constant pull of the tension head prior to clamping off, I think its pretty minimal as compared to the lockout machine.  Even though the lockout machine is no longer pulling once it achieves the desired tension, its still maintaining the tension on the string, that will be resulting in the same string bed feel.

I'm no scientist, so maybe I'm wrong though.  Would like to hear from others about this.
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martin
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #7 - Nov 6th, 2010, 12:47pm
 
one of my former co-workers who started stringing in the early sixties by hand said he liked constant-pulls the best (i believe he prefers the prince (ektelon neos), i don't remember why (next time i see him i'll ask his reasons)
certainly one can put the NEOS right up to the frame, where one has like a half foot of space on like a Bairdo (simply food for thought) between frame & machine.

My assumption is that one of the most important aspects is to retain the elasticity of the string in order to achieve optimal string bed reflection (John Elliot talked a little about this at GSS symposium concerning stringing with poly)

Quote:
Even though the lockout machine is no longer pulling once it
achieves the desired tension, its still maintaining the tension on the string, that will be resulting in the same string bed feel (from rjyu)


I believe that might be the reason why cranks put less tension on strings





can somebody explain again the exact purpose of the diablo on constant-pulls? i had always thought it was simply to pre-stretch the string

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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #8 - Nov 6th, 2010, 3:43pm
 
martin wrote on Nov 6th, 2010, 12:47pm:
one of my former co-workers who started stringing in the early sixties by hand said he liked constant-pulls the best (i believe he prefers the prince (ektelon neos), i don't remember why (next time i see him i'll ask his reasons)

can somebody explain again the exact purpose of the diablo on constant-pulls? i had always thought it was simply to pre-stretch the string


The diablo allows the string to enter the tension jaws at the same angulation each time, and also takes away some of the tension on the string as it enters the tension clamps so it is gentler on the string. Also with some softer strings like nat. gut, if you need to pull a string for a second time for any reason, you can wrap the string around a second time, so a different string section will be in the tension jaws at the same place.It makes it easier on the string.

Your 1st statement above, does not make sense unless the neos you are referring to has an electronic unit on it like a Wise, as the neos were lock outs not constant pulls like you stated.
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Diablo History
Reply #9 - Nov 6th, 2010, 4:00pm
 
As told to me by other stringers, the original diablo was found on the early Babolat Star and Starring machines.  The diablo was to help guide the string through the narrow jaws to the point where the string split apart switch contacts on the tension head to activate pulling.

Current thinking is using the diablo reduces the crush force applied by the jaws.  This comes about because the diablo takes up a good deal of tension during the pulling, leaving less force applied to the string at the jaws.

Hope this makes sense,

Albert
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #10 - Nov 7th, 2010, 5:07am
 
Hi Albert, another little known benefit of the diablo is when stringing with poly/aramid fibre that has a very low amount of stretch. This can cause some electronic machines to fail to release the string from the jaws after a pull as there is not enough slack. Wrapping the poly around the diablo an extra one or two times creates more stretch throughout the added length and allows the tensioned string to be released. I LOVE diablos! Liam Smiley
Nothing to do with this post .. freezing to death in a cold corridor at a $42.5 challenger in Loughborough, first racket in this morning was a BADMINTON  racket for one of the staff, 22lbs and using the diablo of course my lovely new Gamma 5800 Els. Here with Jackie Vaughan and her Star 4 and she says "Hi" to everyone.
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Liam_Nolan
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #11 - Nov 7th, 2010, 12:08pm
 
.... also, when you need to pull a string for the second time for some reason such as ATW, an extra wrap around the diablo allows you to feed a fresh bit of string into the tension head jaws, so saves the string being crushed twice in the same spot, Liam Wink
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martin
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Re: constant pull vs. crank vs. drop-weight
Reply #12 - Nov 8th, 2010, 9:31am
 
concerning neos, i meant to write crank (certainly not constant pull)

thanks for info on diablo, very interesting

i am prediciting eventual "retro" flashback where some very trendy hipsters want there raq's strung on crank
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